Winston Smith :>D

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Posts by Winston Smith :>D

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  50

  Tired? When will you stop talking about Jehovah's Witnesses?

  by Joker10 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  anybody would agree that talking about jehovah's witnesses over and over, and then over some more can get anybody tired and sick.

  except, of course, those who are obsessed over them.

  don't you think there will be a point when you won't talk or even mumble about jehovah's witnesses?

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  Winston Smith :>D

  October 15 2035

  NPY

  LOL

  Don't you think there will be a point when you won't talk or even mumble about Jehovah's Witnesses? And if so, when do you think it will be?

  Joker

  The minute the WTS apologists stop coming to this site
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  51

  I need some advise (I want to get divorced)

  by Leander in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i'll start this post off by saying i love my wife, she has beautiful qualities and a sweet personality.

  however i realize (and i think she does too, though she may not admit it) that since i left the org behind our goals and viewpoints are no longer unified.

  as a couple we rarely fight or argue, we still have many of the same values but yet we have some issues that i know will never be fully resolved.

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  Winston Smith :>D

  Hi Leander, here's my novel :

  I can sympathize with your situation Leander .

  Early 30?s, married five years, no kids.

  I DA?d myself last year, she is still a rabid JW.

  Many of the reasons you mentioned I can relate to:

  1. LARGEST issue is with children, we both would like to raise kids
  2. our goals and viewpoints are no longer unified
  3. do some traveling, attended college
  4. noticing other women besides your wife beyond a level that is healthy for a married man
  5. my own soul is being chipped away when I reflect on the fact that if I stay I forfeit many of my dreams

  I think most of the above reasons can be summarized with:

  ?I want to pursue life on my own terms and be able to share that with someone on an intellectual, physical and emotional level.?

  You are restricted in what you can do because of the WTS. It sounds like you are not DF?d or DA?d?

  Since I am DA?d, I can do what I want within the confines of our marriage vows without direct repercussions from the WTS. So I have taken up Martial Arts, attended the Apostafest in TX, read whatever material I want, watch R-rated movies, and hang out with ?worldly? people.

  It is invigorating to be able to experience these things now without the WTS holding a hammer over my head. But it is frustrating not being able to share these new experiences with my wife. She doesn?t want to even hear about any of the things that I am doing.

  And this is the crux of the matter. I can do what I want and I can hang out with my wife and do ?fun? things with her. But we are living two separate lives. We are roommates who can?t even talk about anything more peripheral than work, the cats, or the weather.

  We spent the day together last weekend. Had a spectacular breakfast downtown. Walked through shops and bought some things. Hung out at the lakefront. But I was ready to go home and call it a day because it was just an ?empty? day. There was nothing substantive we could discuss. It was all fluff.

  The defining moment of that day for both of us came early afternoon after we had this wonderful breakfast and Mimosa?s together. We were walking down this hopping street where there is a lot of activity going on with people eating and drinking in outdoor café?s. As we were walking, we both noticed 10?-0? from us an old friend of mine drinking a Bloody Mary. She is like a sister to me, and her brother & I were both in each other?s weddings. Problem is, she is DF?d, so my wife wouldn?t talk to her. I stopped and talked to her for a minute, then my wife & I left to go into a shop. As we walked away, my wife said that she appreciated that this DF?d person didn?t try to engage her in conversation, but that seeing her on our day together only served as a reminder of how different our lives really are now.

  In the past we have talked about separation and divorce. We have both talked to lawyers in the past. She even decided to move out of the house when I went to the Dallas Apostafest. She went through the effort of putting all of her stuff in boxes before I left Friday morning. But when I returned Monday, she was still living at home. Part of me was glad she didn?t leave, but my initial reaction was disappointment that she didn?t leave because I was now in for another round of living a pseudo life.

  The above reaction was only highlighted to me yesterday when she asked if we could get away for a weeks vacation in the near future. My initial gut reaction was that I didn?t want to spend that amount of time with her. What could we do or say during that time that could be intellectually stimulating or emotionally relaxing that wouldn?t serve as a reminder of how different we are now?

  I guess now my love seems to be moving more inline with what an older brother would have for a younger sister than as actual husband and wife peers. I can, without reservation, see her happy without me years down the road in the WTS with another man who is an elder and with her Reg Pio?ing and little JW clone kids. I can see myself happy by myself going to college and having a whole new set of friends. Then me moving on to have a wife who is intellectually stimulating, is well traveled and had a well-rounded education. Then raising children who strive to see good in all people and have compassion for all people regardless of religion, nationality or creed.

  Biscous said to follow your heart. Big Tex told me that many months ago. Its simple but sage advice and I think of it constantly.

  At times I think that the transition is what is truly frightening, plus the thought of hurting someone who you do genuinely love. Even if that love has morphed from the love a husband and wife share to a love that is akin to a close family member.

  I love you. I love you and feel that we should cordially move on with our lives so both of us can be happier. Love conquers all, but what do I want love to conquer? To rescue her from the WTS? Even if she came out of the WTS, would she change in the same direction as I, or would she go another route, say as a fundamental Christian [nothing wrong with that belief system, but not what I will pursue for me and my future kids] and then her wanting to raise our kids with that belief system? There are really no guarantees, even if she was no longer a JW. A person changing is intrinsic to being human.

  Love is an essential element in a marriage, without a doubt, but this doesn?t mean that it?s the only necessary element. More is needed to make a marriage a happy and successful one IMO.

  Now that we are not JW?s, my life is viewed as limited on this planet, so I have to make this go-around the best that it can be. There is no second chance, & each day is cherished. Any days that are consciously spent in an unhappy environment therefore is a wasted days.

  Not an easy position for sure. I think that I understand your situation Leander.

  BTW, for those that picked out the mention of relations with other women, I feel that this was jumping the gun. Leander certainly cited many reasons, and the one some chose to focus on was not what he said was his biggest reason, or was even a specific reason for leaving and moving on. It was just cited as one of the experiences that were not allowed to him growing up as a JW, and therefore he pondered it.

  IMHO, this claim waged against him seemed to miss his point altogether. The overall desire is to experience life on his own terms. He now thinks about the cake that he was never allowed to experience as a JW. He wants to have the cake [children with a common goal orientated woman, his CITED BIGGEST REASON] that is now out of the question for him and his wife. Other flavors of cake, like college, movies or extreme sports are now available as well. Just because he gives mention to one flavor of cake, say Devil?s Food :-) [other women] doesn?t mean that this is his overall reason for leaving. It?s just part of the laundry list of things that were off limits before, and even now some are still off limits as a married man.

  Of course it is good to mention that if one were leaving a marriage just for the sake of another woman, than there is a high likelihood years later down the road of looking back and realizing that one threw away a good thing, a wife that truly loved him.

  You?ve got mail Leander
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  20

  witness connections wisconsin

  by bavman in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  i have been connected with jw's my whole life.

  i would be interested in meeting or talking with anyone who has connection with wisconsin jw's.

  if u know anyone at all from wisconsin please leave me message in my box.. .

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  Winston Smith :>D

  bav,

  I'm in the Milwaukee, WI area. I DA'd myself last year.

  I'll PM you as well
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  12

  Brothers in need of cheer

  by Sirius Dogma in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  brothers - if you are down, listen to this song, it will help you remember what is important.

  you will be more thankful for what you are blessed with.

  http://www.samglick.net/cheerup.mp3

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  Winston Smith :>D

  Thx, I needed that. At least I got that to hang my hat on
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  44

  How has your marriage been affected by leaving the WTS?

  by Leander in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  it's been exactly 2 years since i stopped attending jw meetings and it's taken a toll on my marriage.

  i expected as much but i guess you can never really prepare for the pain you have to go through when one mate no longer believes in the same things they once did.

  i think my wife has honestly tried hard (as have i) to make the relationship work but i think we're both realizing that there are some really large issues before us that will never be resolved.

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  Winston Smith :>D

  To chime in,

  Chalk me in the "marriage down the crapper" category.

  To be honest, my DA'ing is part of the storm that is making the weak points of our relationship painfully manifest.

  Plus there now are other insurmountable hurdles such as Leander mentions:

  I want to have kids with a woman who wants to show our children the wonderful aspects of this world...

  ...she wants kids with someone who has had their brains sucked out and replaced with new WTS2005 JW submission chip.

  In her eyes, I'm the debil...

  True North summed it up nicely:

  The result of all this and more of the same is likely to make her view her marriage as a trial that she must endure

  It's all a learning experience. We both will be better for it after this storm passes.
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  42

  My swan song

  by Winston Smith :>D in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  my swan song

  i joined the forum 6/11/03 as an active jw.

  i recall being as scared as hell that day.

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  Winston Smith :>D

  My swan song

  I joined the forum 6/11/03 as an active JW.

  I recall being as scared as hell that day.

  Not scared to post because I feared the forum members. No, I spent a small amount of time reading your posts and getting to know you before I joined. After a awhile it became evident that, for the first time in my entire adult life, I finally found a place where I belonged.

  Fear of retribution from the WTS was not a major concern because I knew that they no longer had power over me. The Governing Body were paper-tigers who would only send the toothless-dog elders after me. I had already learned enough before even coming here to be convinced in my heart that the WTS was dead wrong and that I would, with certainty, either DA myself or be DF?d to close that chapter on my life.

  The fear that I did have when I first posted here was fear of the immense task that was ahead of me, of escaping the WTS and starting all over again. That scared the hell out of me.

  I had to restart my entire life at age 32 [I realize that many here have awakened from the WTS with more time than this invested into the cult]. Everything I lived for was a lie. My entire life was structured around a lie. I lied to my family, my friends, my neighbors, my co-workers as I was lied to myself.

  My life was the home built on sand. Now that I realized that the Governing Body was not directed by Jehovah, my house was collapsing like a house of cards right before my eyes.

  I had so many questions:

  Does the soul really die?

  Is the Trinity true?

  Is there really a fiery hell, and will I go there for preaching cult lies?

  Will the earth ever be a paradise?

  Which religion is the right one?

  ?What is truth??

  When I joined the board, I was looking for answers to all of these questions.

  Where does my life go from here?

  Funny thing is, I never got those answers, not a single one.

  I got something infinitely better.

  I got me back.

  Yup, me. The part of me that had been systematically buried over the years in hopes of being a god approved dub. One that would make it through the Big-A, because the real me wasn?t going to make it.

  I put on New Personality?, and it was suffocating my real identity. I was taught that my real identity was selfish, greedy, and desired bad things.

  There was no time to pursue my own desires. Those things could all be done in the New System©.

  In the New System© I could learn how to play the guitar, I could travel, study architecture and do many of the other things that I wanted to do. My personal interests and life were, up to this point, given a raincheck by the WTS that was to be honored a hundred fold in the New System© by god.

  So instead of pursuing those things, I put on the New Personality? and became part of a collective to attain a greater good. Unity at all costs! Individual thoughts = selfishness and the works of the devil, dead works.

  But deep in my soul, things always ate away at me as I tried to carry out actions and thoughts that rubbed against my grain.

  I never liked judging people, devoting my weekends to getting up early for FS or the Sunday meeting, never liked forcing religion down people?s throats, shunning my family who were not JW?s, shunning my friends who were DF?d, not being able to decide what entertainment was suitable for myself, having a drink without being told I had too much, etc?

  But I did them. I did them all for the greater good. I did them because god needed us to make a name for himself. He could not do it without us, without his earthly organization, which was his people and organization on Earth.

  Well, those things are not me, and now I finally got me back.

  I discovered the real ?me? partially through this board. When there was a thought I had, I could post it. If I disagreed, I could do it. If I got a bit hot under the collar, people here understood that I was exiting from a cult and only human.

  I was exposed to new ideas. And I met people who were in similar situations as I was in. Now I could have others give me a ?heads-up? as to what to expect with the elders, my wife, and even consider areas that was I acting poorly.

  There was growth. Looking back at some of the old posts, it?s funny to see how frantic I could be over matters that, in retrospect, now seem trivial.

  For a while, all I posted in were the ?serious? threads. I needed help and guidance. To vent and heal.

  Then I started meandering into the ?fluff? threads to just chat about mindless subjects. But having fun and just talking had it?s own therapeutic effects as well.

  Before long, all I was posting in were the ?fluff? threads. The board became my social circle of sorts.

  Now, I welcome the new ones and give them a warm hello. I see their mind racing in their first posts, and I remember that feeling.

  ?Chasing allusive butterflies through the fields?

  Wanting to know what their foot will hit with their next step in the dark. Now I get to be the ?sage? that is in the brightly lit doorway of the spider webbed, dark room. Calling out to them and telling them that they are doing great and they are almost there. There?s a whole open field lit brilliantly by the sun right outside this open door.

  It?s there waiting for you if you only want to walk into that open field that is free of fences, ropes and lines.

  But there is one thing missing from this world that will take some getting used to by us new ones.

  There are no signs- no one is telling what to do, think or feel.

  How does one navigate this new world on their own?

  I?m finding that no one needs signs to navigate in this new world because we all have a map in ourselves. It will guide us. It is hard at times to trust this voice in ourselves because it was almost suffocated in the WTS as JW?s, but it was never killed.

  It can never be killed. Against all odds, my inner voice did what no one else could do. My AUTHENTIC SELF battled and conquered what no one else could tackle. Not my loved ones who knew that I was in a cult, not family, nor friends. Not even people at the door or evil apostates were able to do what my AUTHENTIC SELF, my inner voice did for me:

  This voice freed me from the clutches of the WTS. It stepped in and took control of my life. It bypassed my conscience mind, with all of it?s barricades that were erected by the WTS, and said, ?Enough is enough!?

  It?s my ?Army of one?.

  Sometimes I ponder how I will ever defeat the WTS.

  I am only One, and the JW?s are 6 million strong; but strength isn?t always in numbers.

  6 million JW zeros still only add up to zero, and my One beats their zero every day of the week.

  So how will I defeat the WTS? I realize that I already have.

  Now I just have to learn to trust this voice.

  It is the voice of my TRUE SELF. It has always been there, and it will never leave me.

  I feel that I can see ways to finally have meaning in my life. A sense of purpose rather than just attaining a goal. Life is to be lived, not solved. It?s the journey, not the destination. I can not change the world, but I can add meaning to it. I am now interdependent with humanity. Now I am humanity. And whatever is not a part of my TRUE SELF in this world I will allow to pas through me.

  ?Walking in the stream but never getting wet.?

  I will always maintain personal integrity to my TRUE SELF, and only by remaining true to this will I become an asset to humanity. A positive force in humanity that will spurt growth and forward movement within the universe.

  As the journey progresses, road must pass under the feet. Crutches once essential will eventually just get in the way. A wheelchair once comfortable will only slow down the journey of a healthy body and restrict further growth.

  Lately, I?ve been taking martial arts classes [Aikido], working at a new job, and doing new things with new people. I also am joining up with an automobile enthusiast club that interests me. I want to go to college and get my Masters degree in Architecture.

  There is a lot of life yet to be lived.

  So, with unspeakable appreciation in my heart, I now have to move ahead and leave this part of my life?s road behind. Throw away the crutches, and retire the wheelchair. I?m dying to run again. To socialize. To live. To breathe outside and take in the fresh air. To lay back my head in the green grass. To feel the sand in between my toes as I run across the beach and into the great ocean of humanity.

  I?ve hit 1000. I?m a ?Jedi Master?. Now it?s time to go out in the world and use what I?ve learned here.

  Thanks for the warm place to rest. It will never be forgotten.

  There are some unwritten parts of my life, such as my marriage, that I will check back in with the group if anything significant happens. Otherwise, there is no longer a need for me to stop here and post. For my own improvement, I must now put it behind me.

  The wedding was grand, and the reception was a blast. But I can?t keep looking at the videotape and pictures of the marriage of myself to this board and it?s great people everyday. for myself, it?s time to move on with life.

  Looking back, it?s funny that I never got the answers to the questions I had when I first came here. But one great quote that was pointed out to me here was this:

  ?I?d rather have questions I can?t answer, than answers I can?t question.?

  And looking back at those questions, it seems almost juvenile to demand answers to them now.

  I view those questions as I would view loving parents who live far away from me and are unable to contact me. If I ever get to visit them, I know I?ll be taken care of and that they?ll welcome me with open arms. And for my part, if I lead a good and happy life, I know I?ll make them proud.

  I expect no less from the loving god that is preached about in the religions worldwide.

  You have all given me the most wonderful gift I could ever ask for, my TRUE SELF.

  It?s time to take the colorful bow off of my LIFE, tear off the wrapping paper, and pull this gift out of the box and put it to good use.

  Love,

  Paul Griger

  If you want to email me, you can here:

  [email protected]
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  14

  Feeling lost???

  by Winston Smith :>D in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  my book recommendation...

  i have referenced this book elsewhere on the site, but i wanted to dedicate a thread to this book.

  my recommendation for all x-jw's to help them combat any future mind control is the book:

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  Winston Smith :>D

  bttt
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  7

  Coming Tragedy: The DoubleDown Witness

  by metatron in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  for many of us, being a fake publisher is probably a healthy way to avoid confrontation with a family-wrecking cult.. however, a different adaptation may lead some to disaster:.

  the double down witness.

  as some of you may know, "doubling-down" is a gambling strategy in which you keep doubling the bet until you win.. that "until" part can make you bankrupt, if you can't keep up with the losses until you score a huge win.. .

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  Winston Smith :>D

  I'm at 18... Hit me again!!!

  Remind me Else to never let you sit on my right hand side at the table in Vegas. You're the guy that's going to get 'my card' with hits like that
• 
  7

  Coming Tragedy: The DoubleDown Witness

  by metatron in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  for many of us, being a fake publisher is probably a healthy way to avoid confrontation with a family-wrecking cult.. however, a different adaptation may lead some to disaster:.

  the double down witness.

  as some of you may know, "doubling-down" is a gambling strategy in which you keep doubling the bet until you win.. that "until" part can make you bankrupt, if you can't keep up with the losses until you score a huge win.. .

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  Winston Smith :>D

  ?One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we?ve been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We?re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It is simply too painful to acknowledge ? even to ourselves- that we?ve been so credulous. So the bamboozles persist as the new bamboozles arise.?

  ~ Carl Sagan

  It's too bad for these ?Double Down? JW?s that when they go bankrupt, the drink girl will stop coming around and they will get thrown out into the real world on their ass. It?s gonna be a rude awakening to these JW?s that put their entire life savings and the mortgage payment onto the green velvet thinking that they had ?21?.
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  14

  Feeling lost???

  by Winston Smith :>D in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  my book recommendation...

  i have referenced this book elsewhere on the site, but i wanted to dedicate a thread to this book.

  my recommendation for all x-jw's to help them combat any future mind control is the book:

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  Winston Smith :>D

  Even a community like this could be prone.

  Not that I would argue that this board is not a good thing. Just something I would keep in mind...

  bebu

  I was thinking the same thing.

  Going over in my head of the 'groups' I am in, I analyzed them all.

  JWD, professional associations [people can really get sucked into these contruction groups and let it take over thier lives], my Aikido classes, etc...

  And I was thinking of becoming more involved in politics, but that can be a dangerous group as well.

  Become republican/democrat, and the other group is automoatically your enemy it seems

  remember well, your posts about the elder visits. you too are one of my more recent heros.

  Ditto!

  Ahhhhh, shucks